Snow Day!

[ase]

Today I blew off work. I feel really bad about it, but I'm reluctant to scamper around ice storm debris when I'm lugging a laptop without a really compelling reason. I stayed home, finished the novel I've been reading, and ate pasta and oranges, not at the same time. I also started typing up my reaction to my novel, and realized I was a little disgusted with it. People who know me: tell me at least one reason why I do not like Diana Gabaldon's Outlander. "It's a romance" does not count. Discussion in comments.

At some point I realized it was Valentine's Day, and that I was trashing a romance novel, and that if I'd been on the ball I could have had chocolate today. I think this means I've failed to observe every major American holiday but Thanksgiving and Halloween in the last six months: Christmas, Hanukah, the Superbowl... anyway.

Comments

[norabombay.livejournal.com]

Heh- I called, as there is a sequel to cowboy days out there. Check out speris's journal for the link.

[ase.livejournal.com]

I saw! Unholy glee here.

[meril.livejournal.com]

Outlander h8: Because the history is fubar? Because it's another case of romanticising the Scots? Because the time-travel device is patently silly?

I still haven't read the damn thing yet, but my mother did. I only picked it up because someone on my flist whose judgment is seriously in question said that Jamie Fraser reminded her of Andrew LaFollet. I take it this is seriously not the case, especially after talking to my mother about it.

[ase.livejournal.com]

There are so many reasons. Stupid romance premises stopped bothering me when I started letting writers have One Stupid Premise (tm) in exchange for clever followup. Clever followup absolutely did not happen here. My British Isles history is pretty weak, so I'm willing to let that slide, but the lack of historial "feel" - if I'm reading a book about a circa 1945 woman, I want her to react like a c.'45 person, not someone from my generation. I'd compare Outlander to MZB's Thendara House on that point - it's a book specifically about culture clash and adjustment. It's not necessarily good, but every time I read it I'm struck by the double assumptions: the attitudes of the constructed Darkovan culture, and MZB's cultural and personal experiences informing the Terran PoV. (Three words: Mrs. Peter Haldane.) I don't get that double cultural whammy from Outlander, and I really should.

Jamie Frasier and Andrew LaFollet comparisons start and stop with the phrase, "older woman". Other than that, zilch similarity. I would totally recommend skipping it.

[meril.livejournal.com]

LOL re Thendara House. It's so true. Loved Darkover, but I had to chalk all of the Terran stuff to "feminist novel actually about the time it's written in" in order to enjoy it. David Weber has a real good rant about that, but I don't think he's ever committed it to electrons. "Shouldn't we be optimistic and try to get rid of sexism?" essentially.

I do like the older woman/younger man set up, but I can work through the rest of the All About Romance special titles sheet first. Also I think the dubious reccer made the comparison not about the "older woman" aspect but the "fictional character I am hot for" aspect. Trying to explain that it's Theisman that fits the latter aspect for me wrt Honorverse apparently didn't quite transmit. XD

I read Lord John and the Private Matter first, and thought it was really good. I think I'll take your advice and stop with the rest.

[ase.livejournal.com]

If I were going to teach a class about science fiction and society, I would totally use Thendara House. (Although - wait a sec. It was written in 1983? I would have pegged it as being written much earlier! But this means I can do, like, Downbelow Station, Shards of Honor and TH as a linked "early '80's" set! Someone stop me, please.) I would love to see an older woman/younger man setup, but this is not the novel for it. Outlander was an early (first?) novel, so Gabaldon may have improved a lot by the time she wrote Lord John. Would you recommend it? Keep in mind I thought Outlander needed an editing machete and some more compellingly drawn characters.

[meril.livejournal.com]

If you want to get into the linkedsetness of those books for a possibly wider audience, reading_mix needs someone to kick it in the tail. I haven't read anything that really goes together recently (although if anyone would like to further convince me that Fool's Run and Path of the Fury make a good paired read, I'd be interested as proof that I'm not insane--but then again, I haven't reread either of them recently)

Lord John is a 300-page murder mystery. If you feel like blowing 300 pages of your time reading about a gay man in London during the 18th century--which may or may not be historically accurate--go ahead. The more I think about it, the more it may not be your thing; the book sort of reminds me of Melusine sans whiny uke protagonist.

Um. Sorry to ramble in your comments again.

[ase.livejournal.com]

reading_mix sounds like exactly my sort of thing. (Case in point: The King of Elfland's Daughter (Dunsany) and Stardust (Gaiman): consider the influence.) People see different similarities/relations based on personal experience; I may think Downbelow Station (Cherryh) and Shards of Honor/Barrayar (Bujold) are two sides of an early 80's mindset, but I'm not sure everyone would agree. (Partly because I accidentally transposed a scene from Barrayar into DbS. I'd dearly love to know what my brain was thinking.)

Lack of historical accuracy in a historical novel might bug me. Melusine's major drawback for me was Felix; without him emoting large crazy tears I might have enjoyed the book. Unless there is also a problem with 2-D villains; I am bored with bad guys who are bad just 'cause. If you're going to be Lord Evil of Evil Because I Am Meeeeeaaan, couldn't you be so in a "drugs and rock'n'roll" way? Evil onstage with light shows is much more interesting.

Rambling in comments is encouraged, sometimes by example.

[meril.livejournal.com]

Well, the point of creating the mixes isn't really that of agreement, unless you're me and want to make sure that the entire comm will be wondering exactly how you came up with that insane line of reasoning. ;)

Now that you think of it, it's true about Stardust. I read those books at the same time, too (well, 3/4 of Stardust was out by then, I believe. I've got it in single issues.)

The problem with trying to remember the villains is related to me having read the thing about 3 years ago and not taking any notes about it.

[hedda62.livejournal.com]

Pretty strong dislike for Outlander myself; reasons may vary. I couldn't stand Jamie, liked the original husband who was supposed to be so awful, found it unfair that the villain looked like him and was gratuitously gay. And a bunch of other reasons I've forgotten (including a generalized dislike for magical time travel).

[ase.livejournal.com]

The villain wasn't gay, he was bi. This is mostly important because it lets him be a sexual menace to both romantic leads. (I'll bet you can see my eyeroll from here.)

I really didn't care much about the characters. Disliking Jamie would have meant caring about his Manly Angst of Angsting. Getting annoyed with Claire would have meant getting emotionally attached to her silly personality. I really should have bailed when the Evil Many-Great-Granddad Twin thing popped up; that's rarely a good sign.

I am willing to give every author her or his One Silly Setup Device if they can make the premise work, down to the green suns and second-order effects. Outlander fails to deliver on its promise of time travel wackiness. (Incidentally, I'm expecting you to deliver, when you publish. That might contribute to my lesser sensitivity to wave-a-wand time travel; I've spent very little effort on trying to event narratively-plausible time travel.)

[hedda62.livejournal.com]

I will try to deliver. There's always going to be a certain amount of hand-waving in time travel fiction, especially among those of us who aren't physicists, but what bugs me is a failure to address implications of the means of travel, or to involve them significantly in the plot. Perhaps Outlander's sequels do this; I don't care enough to read them to find out.

Wasn't the Evil Many-Great-Granddad bi but incapable with women (or at least with Claire)? Upping the frustration level, so he can make Jamie suffer more from threats to his manhood? Fun.

[ase.livejournal.com]

Perhaps Outlander's sequels do this; I don't care enough to read them to find out.

That's pretty much my feeling on the matter.

Evil Many-Greats is apparently incapable when kicked in the balls, but otherwise likes girl-bits just fine. This was a plot point during the "Jamie must have angst about his sister!" sub-plot. I really dislike gratuitous sexual assault in my entertainment reading: it's so often a lame excuse for hurt/comfort. In this case, it also fails to do anything but tack another 150 pages onto the book, and also make me say, "this isn't fun anymore."

[nwl.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't know if this is your reason, but besides not liking the supposed love interest and the villain who looked like the husband, I didn't like the heroine. She was self-centered and pretty much an idiot. She would be told not to do something and she'd run off to do it, saved from her stupidity at the last minute by wild circumstance. She never seemed to understand that she was in a different culture and was the worst "ugly American" possible. She rarely, if ever, received the consequences of her actions, and usually watched as someone else did.

The book was also much too long. I gave up on the second one and probably will just trade in the third to the used book store from whence it came.

[ase.livejournal.com]

She never seemed to understand that she was in a different culture

She also didn't seem to be from a different culture. I do not expect c.1945 chick, however plucky, to hold the sort of values and experiences my generation has had.

She rarely, if ever, received the consequences of her actions, and usually watched as someone else did.

Angst on, Claire! Let others suffer for your recklessness, and then complain when they're put out with you!

The flip side of feminism is taking responsibility for your actions. I think that the concept of individual vs. clan/group responsibility could be explored to great effect in a time travel novel. Not this one, apparently.

I think you're right about the length: there's a decent 300 - 400 page novel lurking in the 850 paperback pages. Whoever edited Outlander did it a disservice by not bleeding red ink over many more pages. Start by cutting out the last 150 pages, and trim from there.

[filkferengi]

Or, there's always MZB's classical editing advice: Cut out half, and revise the rest.

:)

[ase.livejournal.com]

It would have helped a great deal to do just that, I think.